Paul Resnick ([info]presnick) wrote,
@ 2004-08-18 10:00:00
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When Reputation Systems Are Worse Than Useless
A paper by Ely, Fudenberg, Levine, titled When is Reputation is Bad?, analyzes mathematical models of situations where public reputations make it harder, not easier, to sustain good behavior. I'll start with their example of a car mechanic who prefers to be honest but will occasionally be tempted to take an unfriendly action in order not to be mistaken in the long run for a crooked mechanic. Then I try to summarize their findings about the class of situations that lead to this kind of problem.

Suppose that a car mechanic can recommend either a tuneup or a new engine, and that half the cars that come to her need a tuneup, half a new engine. Customers prefer to have the correct repair done (even though new engines are expensive). For any particular car, a good car mechanic gains greater utility from being honest, but might be tempted to do otherwise because of long-run reputation effects, as we'll see. A bad mechanic has no morals and likes the extra revenue from engine replacements, so always recommends engine replacement. There are both good and bad mechanics out there, and customers know mechanics only from their reputation history, which is just the sequence of Tuneup/Replacement actions they took in response to previous customers.

Customers start with some initial beliefs about how likely it is that a mechanic is good. If that belief is high enough, a first customer will try the mechanic, and the game is underway. Even one tuneup in a mechanic's history will convince customers that the mechanic is good (bad mechanics always replace the engine; the same phenomenon could occur, I think, but would be more complicated if bad mechanics occasionally disguised themselves-- look for a future post about a paper by Cripps, Mailath, and Samuelson that gives some insights into that).

Suppose a mechanic has a string of engine replacements, with no tuneups. Each additional engine replacement makes customers more suspicious that the mechanic is bad (though it's always possible that it's a good mechanic who just happened to get a lot of cars that all needed new engines). Eventually, after some number K of engine replacements, customers are so suspicious that they stop going to that mechanic and the game is over.

Now consider what the good mechanic should do if she happens to get K cars in a row that all need new engines. On the Kth one, she knows that being honest will cause her to be mistaken for a bad mechanic and she'll get no future business, so she's tempted to recommend a tuneup even though she thinks it needs a new engine. But customers, knowing that even a good mechanic will not be honest the next time, after K-1 engine replacements, will not bring their cars to the mechanic in that situation. By an unraveling argument familiar in game theoretic analysis, that means that the good mechanic will not be honest on her K-1st car if she's had all engine replacements up till then, and so on all the way back to the very first car. Thus, customers can't trust even the good mechanics to be honest, even on the first car, and no one uses the mechanics at all.

The moral of the story is that the public reputation system is creating the wrong incentives. The usual incentive effect for a reputation system is to cause a strategic player to do something that helps other people, in order to be "confused" with the type of player who really do like to help other people. Here, it's creating an incentive for a strategic player to do something that hurts other people, in order not to be confused with the type of player who really prefers those harmful actions.

The paper summarizes (p.7) the conditions that can lead to this kind of problem:

  1. Information about a player is revealed only when other players are willing to engage with that player, so that getting a sufficiently bad reputation is a black hole that you can't escape from.

  2. There are "friendly" actions; a high probability of friendly actions is what causes partners to we willing to play. (In the mechanics example, honesty is the friendly action.)

  3. There are bad "signals" or outcomes that occur more frequently with unfriendly actions but occur sometimes even with friendly actions. It is these signals/outcomes that will be made publicly visible in a reputation system. (In the mechanics example, the bad outcome is recommending an engine replacement.)

  4. There are "temptations", unfriendly actions that reduce the probability of bad "signals" and increase the probability of all the good signals. (In the mechanics example, the temptation is reporting the signal "tuneup" even when the car needs an engine replacement.)

  5. The proportion of player types who are committed to the friendly action regardless of its consequences is not too large. (These would be mechanics who would never say "tuneup" when you needed an "engine", even if it meant closing their business tomorrow.



Note that these conditions can be met for the mechanics situation even if the public signals that are shared reflect whether the engine really did need to replaced. For example (see p.30), suppose that the good mechanics get an imperfect reading of whether a car needs a tuneup or an engine replacement. But after they try one or the other, the truth is revealed and goes into their publicly visible reputation, along with the action they chose. In this case, a "bad signal" is when the mechanic turns out to be wrong in her recommendation [Note added after initial post-- the bad signal is really being wrong in a recommendation of "engine"-- see followup comments]. The friendly action of making an honest recommendation can still lead to a bad signal, though a bad mechanic who always recommends an engine tuneup will still get a bad signal more frequently. Recommending a "tuneup" is still a temptation, to avoid being confused with the bad mechanics.

An earlier draft had a useful discussion of why not all "advice" processes will fit the citeria listed above, though I don't find it in the current draft. Perhaps most important is criterion 1, that getting a bad reputation is something that you can't escape from. If a player can pay a fee to encourage customers to continue interacting with her, or if there are some customers who don't pay attention to reputations, or if there's some way to keep generating public signals without having any customers take a risk on you, then there can be an escape from the black hole, and thus the unraveling argument won't come into play (the temptation option is not so compelling just before your reputation is about to enter the black hole). In other situations, condition 4 may not apply: there may not be a temptation action available that reduces the probability of all the bad signals while increasing the probability of all the good signals.



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Probability
(Anonymous)
2004-08-19 02:36 am UTC (link)
The probability of having all engine replacements in a row is deminishing expotentially with the lenght of the sequence. I don't think the analyzed example have any realistic consequences. -- ZbigniewLukasiak

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Re: Probability
[info]presnick
2004-08-19 12:27 pm UTC (link)
I guess it's a little counter-intuitive, but that's how unraveling arguments work in game theory. A long string of correct engine replacements is unlikely, but if it could happen. Thus, one before the end, people would try to do something. But the other side should anticipate that, and refuse to interact with the mechanic. But, foreseeing that, the mechanic should be tempted one step earlier, and so on.

In practice, it may be that people can count on sufficient irrationality from others that things don't completely unravel. But it's useful to try to understand when certain behaviors can be sustained rationally, when everyone understands the game.

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Re: Probability
[info]7wrc
2007-05-02 10:03 pm UTC (link)
In practice, it may be that people can count on sufficient irrationality from others that things don't completely unravel. But it's useful to try to understand when certain behaviors can be sustained rationally, when everyone understands the game.

Agree to this.

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(Anonymous)
2004-08-19 06:27 am UTC (link)
The two cases (where there is no information about how satisfied the customers are and where there is not) are quite different.

Where there is no information about customer satisfaction: First, I'm not sure this is really about reputation (if you look at reputation as a collective of people's *interpretation* of interaction, and not simply about the interpretation of statistical history). One question here is that if all anybody knows about is whether tuneups or engines were done, without any information about satisfaction, where did people get the stereotype that many engine replacements means a bad mechanic? This a clustering problem, where the decision is based on how long a string of engine replacements you have before declaring a mechanic to be a "bad" mechanic. The key issue seems less about reputation than about balancing the cost to the car owners of allowing long strings of engine replacements (ie. keeping truly bad mechanics in the game a long time) vs the cost of mistakenly ousting a good mechanic who got lots of legit bad engines. The other strategy is for the good mechanics to periodically refuse to treat cars that need engine replacements. Such a refusal helps their stats; and, like a tuneup, functions as a signal of a good mechanic, since bad ones always take opportunity to replace engine.

(aren't there some real cases like this in health care? where doctors refuse to treat really sick patients becasue of statistical issues)

The situtation where this is information about whether the decision is right or wrong seems quite different. Here the question revolves about intent vs. outcome: how much do you care about the mechanics intention vs. skill? I don't think that there is a temptation to recommend a tuneup here, assuming that people care more about the statistic of what percentage of times did the mechanic do the right thing, vs. the percentage of tuneups vs. engines. Falsely recommending a tuneup ups one's bad decision statistic which would make you more like a bad mechanic.


- Judith Donath
http://smg.media.mit.edu/people/judith

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I think it applies even when outcomes revealed
[info]presnick
2004-08-19 12:22 pm UTC (link)
1) Consumers get their stereotype that bad mechanics like to replace engines
presumably because consumers think it's profitable for them, but not
profitable for the honest mechanics, because the honest mechanics have
scruples and wouldn't sleep well at night if they did that. The model in the
paper doesn't explicitly get into that-- it just assumes there are some
"commitment types" who always replace engines).

2) I agree that this is about history and not people's interpretations of
interactions. But I think it's pretty common usage for the term reputation
system to refer to systems that use implicit feedback (historical
observations) as well as explicit feedback (judgements by people).

3) Your addition of the "refuse to service this car" action for mechanics is
a nice design move. It's an action that allows the honest mechanic to
separate herself from the unscrupulous without performing the wrong repair.
(Of course, such refusals to treat might not be so benign, depending on
availability of other mechanics, or doctors in the scenario that you and
Kate brought up.) One way to think about the value of the formal model in
the paper is that it points out some conditions under which it's important
to make a design move like yours to introduce "temptations" that are more
"friendly", or to do something that makes a bad reputation something that
you can escape from.

4) Your argument about the outcomes vs. diagnoses being different seemed
compelling, so I went back to the paper and did a little more thinking. I
think I didn't give quite the right mapping, or at least not quite a
complete mapping. But I do think their argument still works. In this
scenario, both the diagnosis and the outcome will be revealed. Consumers get
suspicious that you are a bad mechanic when you have a long sequence of
"engine" diagnoses that all turn out be wrong diagnoses. Admittedly, this is
very unlikely, even more unlikely than just getting a string of "engine"
repairs in the original scenario. But it could happen. And just before you
get to the point where people stop doing business with you, if you're an
honest mechanic you'd be tempted to diagnose "tuneup" to distinguish
yourself from the bad guys. The bad guys don't make mistakes in diagnosis a
lot; they say "engine" no matter what. So saying tuneup, even incorrectly,
would distinguish you. But consumers wouldn't want to come to you if they
thought you were going to do that. Admittedly, it's a low probability that
you'll ever get to that point, but if you did, your rational move would be
to say "tuneup" even if your diagnose was "engine replacement". Then the
unraveling argument takes over. If you'd be tempted in that situation, and
everyone knows it, then no one will deal with you in that situation. So then
you go back one more step in the game, and so on, till no one will deal with
you at all.

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(Anonymous)
2004-08-19 10:54 am UTC (link)
Here is an article talking about the situation where doctors (in this case cardiac surgeons) fail to treat "high-risk" patients due to fear that it will adversely effect their report card scores. (I think this is what Judith was referring to in her post)
http://www.kellogg.northwestern.edu/news/hits/030316nyt.htm
This is another case where collecting raw statistics and presenting them as "reputation" could have undesired side-effects.

I agree that in the case of the mechanics, what is being reported is a statistic that may not actually reflect reputation. There are many reasons a mechanic could have a string of engine replacements: his price was lower, he is known to be very good at them, etc. What you really want to know is does the mechanic charge fair prices, does he reliably fix cars, etc. There is an example of a reputation system for mechanics on the Car Talk website:
http://www.cartalk.com/content/mechx/find.html

Kate Lockwood
kate@cs.northwestern.edu

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Actions in a vacuum
(Anonymous)
2004-08-22 06:20 am UTC (link)
This analysis fails to take into consideration the quality of interaction the mechanic may have with customers. After all, aren't reputations the product of the quality of actions and not just the actions themselves?

For example, the mechanic might, in good faith, advise the customer to secure a second opinion from other, trusted mechanics. Or, she might simply level with the customer ("I can't believe I've had to replace K bad engines in a row this week!"). Both provide for reputation-enhancement possibilities.

My point is, the whole reputation system breaks down when you fail to consider the quality of the interaction surrounding it. Lots of people get conned evey day; some of them feel good about it.

hyperLunk (http://hyperLunk.com)

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useless tune-up=>engine failure=>bad reputation
(Anonymous)
2004-08-22 06:41 pm UTC (link)
The article also fails to take into account the likelihood that an engine that needs to be replaced but only gets a tune-up would continue to have problems, thus damaging the mechanic's reputation.

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[info]livingtomorrow
2005-11-14 08:14 pm UTC (link)
The article ignores the rationality of consumers, or actually it assumes that they behave irrationally. It sets artificial and arbitrary limitations. For example, good mechanics have freedom to mislead the consumers, but bad mechanics can't. The consumers apparently must follow some very simple predefined strategy that doesn't maximize their utility. Overall the whole argument is bogus, contrived, full of inconsistencies and logical holes and just plain retarded. It may be possible that the original paper is somehow better, but I already wasted more time here than this nonsense warrants.

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I concur
(Anonymous)
2007-07-20 01:03 am UTC (link)
I agree with Living Tommorrow. Nonsense and rubbish abound here.

James Hernandez

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(Anonymous)
2007-08-28 07:14 am UTC (link)
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testing this one...
(Anonymous)
2007-11-23 01:29 pm UTC (link)
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reputatiom
[info]petersongman
2008-03-01 10:12 am UTC (link)
When Reputation Systems Are Worse Than Useless - is true

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Re: reputatiom
(Anonymous)
2008-09-27 06:46 pm UTC (link)
Thank you

indir (www.1indir.net)

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[info]jamielihy
2008-03-17 03:01 am UTC (link)
Old message, but nice to reread it..

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(Anonymous)
2008-09-28 07:13 pm UTC (link)
www.merkeznet.net

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2008-10-05 12:02 pm UTC (link)
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Re: great
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2008-10-05 12:03 pm UTC (link)
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2009-06-05 08:37 pm UTC (link)
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2009-11-10 02:25 am UTC (link)
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